Thursday, June 28, 2007

Bizz-R-er and Bizz-R-er

PETA president Ingrid Newkirk writes Michael Moore to tell him that he's too fat, should stop eating meat and [I'll shamelessly infer from here on] append his new documentary Sicko to include a discussion of how meat eating is destroying everyone's health and how they can all be saved by vegetarianism.

Link to Letter from Newkirk to Moore

12 comments:

Robinson said...

I'm so tired of meat eaters being blamed for all the ills of the world.

fiat lux said...

I'll say this for PETA, they are very consistent and creative in finding new ways to be outrageous and get press.

I still despise them though. If anything, I am even less likely to go veggie thanks to their antics.

Jellicles said...

yes..robinson is right.

bob, please stop blaming meat eaters for all the ills of this world.

The Foodist said...

Only PETA could be so arrogant to tell someone so arrogant as Michael Moore how to eat...

The irony is amusing

Bob del Grosso said...

Hey Robinson & Jellicles

I know you are busting them but I must be clear: I'm not in the business of telling anyone how to eat. Sh-t, I can't even tell my kids what to eat.

The reason find PETA distasteful is that instead of just putting the info out there and letting people decide for themselves they seem to encourage their members to take action against meat producers and retailers in an effort to stop consumption. It's almost as if they think that consumers are too stupid to decide for themselves.

New subject

Don't you think it's ironic that since meat became widely available in the US in the 20th century, human life span increased dramatically? Sure a lot of the incr. can be written off to better health care and the migration of people to cities (where emergency services, communication and less stressful work also played a role in extending lifespan). But pull meat and other animal based foods out of the equation and I'll bet life expectancy would have been shorter.

Of course I cannot prove any of this.

There are good reasons to stop eating it altogether but in my opinion the best of these tend to be moral and environmentally grounded and unrelated to health.

FaustianBargain said...

really? you think meat consumption is the reason for the increase in human lifespan? i am sure technology and advancements in health sciences has something to do with it. it is rather naive to suggest that meat consumption increases lifespan.

has the quality of health increased since meat consumption has increase? how about rates of obesity? how about malnutrition rates in one of the richest countries in the world? how about a comparison between the health statistics of meat eating community and non meat eating communities?

i am confused by your logic. i am sure you have your own reasons for making those confounding statements.

FaustianBargain said...

true. you cannot prove the statement that life span will increase because of an increase meat eating habits.

because it is a false statement.

have a nice day!

sfchin said...

Yeah, despite being a meat-eater myself, I have to agree with Faustian that the increase in life expectancy is probably due almost entirely to improved health care, and in fact most likely it has occurred despite the increase in the consumption of meat.

I believe that the current group of American children is the first generation (maybe in the country's history) which is not expected to live longer than their parents. I'm sure people will say that's mostly due to video games and HFCS, but I bet more cheeburger is not the answer.

Steve

Bob del Grosso said...

FaustianBargain

Good point here -if a bit harshly put.

"true. you cannot prove the statement that life span will increase because of an increase meat eating habits.

because it is a false statement."


I really try to be careful when I conjecture, but because this is not an academic forum and I rarely if ever state anything as "fact" I do not feel obligated to spend a lot of space supporting every little piece of conjecture with vetted evidence. Especially when it is in a comment box and not a post.

That's a big part of the reason why I wrote that I could not prove it. I suppose I should have written something on the order of "will not prove it" but thought that might sound too brusque.

Finally, if you go back to my original comment you will see that I never said that an increase in meat eating will lead to an increase in life span. What I suggested was that an increase in the wide availability of meat in the 20th century was probably partially responsible for the increase in life span in the US.

In the future if you or anyone wants to write something that you think deserves a detailed reply I invite anyone to email me at bobdelgrosso@gmail.com
and I'll do my best to respond to you. These little comment boxes are just too frustrating to type into.

Best to you and all of you

BdG

FaustianBargain said...

hello bob, i did not ask for a proof. i was only saying that you are wrong. life expectancy around the world has improved not because of nutrition, but mostly because of a decrease in infant and childhood mortality.

with the exception of africa where high mortality is attributed to AIDS and the related death toll. the impact of food is rather minimal on life expectancy.

in fact, it is just the opposite. it has been argued that the domestication of plants and animals had actually reduced life expectancy because of higher infection rates caused by the increase in human settlements and poorer nutrition due to low dietary variations(you can check this out in the wikipedia entry about life expectancy..with stats, graphs and citations)

i get the feeling that i have annoyed you somehow by disagreeing with you. if this is the case, it is most unfortunate. i just assumed that the blog was open to all opinions and since your point re life expectancy was in the comment section, you didnt mind additional input and impressions from those who disagreed with you.

but i can see why you are annoyed. fair enough. it's your blog afterall. thanks for being honest about it.

Bob del Grosso said...

FaustianBargain

Let's be honest here

1) "because it is a false statement.

have a nice day!"

is highly impolite.

But all of that aside, it is intellectually dishonest to write that a something that someone has written that is not stated as fact is false. Besides, you know as well as I do that you don't have the time or the resources to prove the opposite. So why be so harsh?

Simply saying that something is so does not make it so.

I swear this is the last time I'm going to address this issue here. If you still want to discuss it please email me.

666Damien666 said...

"Bob del Grosso said...
Hey Robinson & Jellicles

I know you are busting them but I must be clear: I'm not in the business of telling anyone how to eat. Sh-t, I can't even tell my kids what to eat.

The reason find PETA distasteful is that instead of just putting the info out there and letting people decide for themselves they seem to encourage their members to take action against meat producers and retailers in an effort to stop consumption. It's almost as if they think that consumers are too stupid to decide for themselves."

Bobby - that's bullshit, and you know it. Why not say, Lincoln was against slavery, but it really sucked how he imposed his beliefs, instead of just posting a note in every town square to let people decide.

Moron.